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Part 1: speech
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[I would like to talk about] one of our most traditional industries – and one of our most important indigenous industries – which is the food industry. Em, and I think what I'll do if you can bear with me, I'll just talk a bit about what we do – Bord Bía, the Irish Food Board – I'll talk a bit about the marketing environment, in terms of what consumers are looking for out in the marketplace. I think a lot of them, we were, we touched on a lot of them this afternoon when we were looking at Dorothy's film [i.e. Deborah Koons Garcia's film The Future of Food] [1] and whatever; and maybe then about how we go positioning Ireland – as exports are so important to us – in the international arena. So that's the kind of agenda.
Firstly, Board Bía. We're the state agency responsible for the trade, market development of Irish food and drink and horticulture. We're focused purely on the demand side – what the market wants – and we operate mainly in export markets, although we do have a role in the domestic market here in Ireland.
Eh, we have, em, we've a number of offices around the world – we have nine – mainly in Europe, but we do have one in the US and Russia – basically where our most important markets are.
Eh, and our mission is to drive the success of a world-class Irish food & drink and horticulture industry by providing market development services and promotion to our clients, who are, eh, largely Irish-based clients. Em, that's us, that's Bord Bía, yeah.
I suppose very briefly – for those of you who weren't from Ireland – the food industry is our most important what we call indigenous industry. I know it's a terrible word, but it's our native industry, it's our most important one. It, it accounts for about € 18 - 19 billion in, kind of, turnover – which is a very significant figure – 50% of which we export. So we export a lot of what we, what we produce. It accounts for about 9% of our Gross Domestic Product, 8% of industrial employment, and about 25% of our net foreign earnings. Eh, so it's very important, particularly for our rural economy. A lot of the, if you like, the, the, em, if you like, the, the, em, sources of our agricultural produce, the, the products, originate here in Ireland, so from an added-value perspective, it's very important.
Ah, in terms of, of, of the, em, our exports, we export as I said roughly 50% of what we produce. We are the biggest exporter of beef in the Northern Hemisphere; we export 90% of what we produce, so if you were an economist you'd say we are 1,010 per cent self-sufficient in beef. Eh, so we are a very important exporter in beef and dairy produce. Eh, we mainly export to Europe and to the UK. We do separate out the two; because traditionally we would have 80% of our, or our exports would have gone to our closest neighbour which was the United Kingdom. Eh, but since we joined Europe in 1973 we've been diversifying, spreading the risk, so we export now about 20 - 30% to Europe – which is interesting enough because, I suppose, we're still largely dependent on two non-Eurozone sterling and the dollar area, so we have to juggle around in terms of, of, eh, competitiveness.
So basically we export to about 160 countries; em, the UK is our most important market, followed by Europe and international markets which would include countries like the United States, Middle East, Russia, whatever. So that's a kind of a quick cycle around the, the export markets.
In terms of the sectors, dairy and meat are our two most important sectors. Em, they would – between them – represent over 50% in terms of outputs and in terms of exports. But increasingly the more important sectors – the prepared food area which is about 21% of our export, but that's growing significantly, whereas the dairy and meat sectors are likely to remain, eh, roughly around the same. There are quotas, there's restrictions in terms of the amounts, the outputs that we can increase production. So you're going to see growth in the prepared food sector, that's our high-growth area, that's doubled in size in the last five years, and that's likely to continue to do so over the next five years.
Eh, the Demon Drink – em, we have three or four of the biggest global brands here in Ireland: Baileys (I'm sure you've had the opportunity from overseas to taste the Baileys), Guinness, Jameson – we have a number of very big global brands here in Ireland [2]. But there is an even more important, next generation of younger drinks companies just coming up through the system, the likes of First Ireland Spirit; we have a lot of smaller companies who are, if you like, learning from the experience of these bigger global companies who are small niche players but equally doing very well in, em, European markets.
Eh, I won't dwell too much longer in terms of the sectors, but drink is a very important export, eh, for Ireland. It's probably better known as a drink island than as a food island, but we won't go into that!
Em, the marketing environment: I mean we touched briefly on that today. What are consumers looking for and what's driving the food industry? Em, I mean there are, kind of, no, no surprises, em, certainly with this relentless drive for convenience. And I suppose even Ireland has joined this since the Celtic Tiger. They were thinking of, of, em, looking at – anecdotally – changing the national symbol of Ireland from the shamrock to the construction crane – we've been doing so well over the last five years, that, em, certainly population is growing. Even the population of Kilkenny – another interesting figure – in 2002, in County Kilkenny was 82,000. That's the same number that the total population of Ireland grew in 2004, so every three or four years we're adding another County's population to what we've got. So the significant growth in population, and this is driving this whole business of convenience, more women working in the, in the workforce. We've, em, now introduced dashboard dining into our culture, em, for those of us driving around the city, the M50, constant traffic, whatever, so we're becoming more and more like most other modern advanced, em.
Here are some of the kind of things, if you like, that are impacting on food choices. Eh, mm, I won't go through them all because it's a little too late in the evening, it's a bit like an eye test with all those numbers. But briefly, em, in terms of what are, what are driving consumers, in terms of convenience – usually hard pressed, time-pressed, cash-rich – eh, but it's convenience, basically. Em, most people don't know what they're going to have for dinner by four o'clock in the afternoon. So it's all about convenience, about convenience stores, it's shopping late, and things that can be prepared, eh, relatively quickly. Eh, I think the average now is down to about 10 minutes is the average preparation time for, for meals in Ireland. It's gone down from 20 to 10.
Em, and I think people are craving to get more back into more traditional, but there isn't time: time is the big, em, the big issue.
We've moved from convenience to this thing about health and well-being. Eh, It's very important in terms of the role of food has on our health and well-being. Em, and we are what we eat, and the importance of diet on our whole life style.
We carried out some further research. Sorry, I should have mentioned here, we do a comparative study every two years on the relative attitudes to, em, food, shopping, and a number of items, between Ireland – that's ROI / Republic of Ireland – Great Britain, and Northern Ireland, and there are significant variations. It's to help our manufacturers to say "Well look, it's not a big homogeneous market, there are differences", so we kind of, we did this, a national study we do every two, three years, over a thousand households, a thousand households, so it's relatively robust in terms of scientific, eh, in terms of, of statistics, so, eh, but there are differences between Ireland, between Northern Ireland and Southern Ireland and Great Britain, and this kind of helps to highlight kind of where those, those differences are.
But nonetheless, in terms of the Republic of Ireland, we are more and more concerned about, em, what we eat, the origin of our, of our food, where it comes from – moreso than they are in the UK. I suppose it could be associated with our agricultural background: we're basically an agricultural country, whatever. So, em, I think people are more and more conscious of the impact food has on your wellbeing, your life, your mental health as well. So we're picking this up more and more as we do our, em, our, our research.
Em, now. Good food can enhance my, yes I think this, again, the same topic, em, body and mind: what you eat. You see all these, particularly a lot of the food manufacturers now moving into, kind of, "functional foods", functionality, em, and I think that people, consumers are much more concerned about what's in the food, who produces it, where it comes from, probiotics, all of this functionality in foods is driving a lot of the growth in the food industry. Eh, and I think more recently this, the impact that food has on your mental health as well. So your, your, this is driving a lot of the trends in the food business.
Em, OK, some of the other things that we, we again, it's trying to track the attitudes of consumers and it's, kind of, quite difficult to do, we're noticing this, kind of, schizophrenic behaviour which is a bit like what we call "splurge and purge" culture where we're having consumers treating themselves to indulgent products – there's a lot of growth in that whole kind of indulgence speciality area, which is not necessarily the most healthy food, but people like to treat themselves. At the same time they are looking at price, they are looking at trading down in terms of getting better value for the standard grocery items. It's about price, eh, when you're thinking about basic commodities, whereas you can treat yourself when you want to, to have something special. Eh, I mean a lot of the grocery market is driven largely on price, I mean part of Dorothy's film [i.e. Deborah's] there mentioned about concentration in, in retailing taking place around the world; it's no different, the only difference in Ireland is we have a kind of, well we used to have a Groceries Orders Act which was a bit restrictive, that's been dismantled, but we do have planning restrictions, so although they changed the laws on planning, we won't have a Wal-Mart in Ireland for a considerable number of years.
We have a huge number of what we call convenience stores, and Ireland leads the way in smaller convenience-type stores. So, I was talking at a conference last month in Dublin about, about convenience stores; we had people from all over the world coming to see us, look, there is an alternative method to the big black box, so, so, we're, we're leading the way in terms of, of retail in the convenience, the whole convenience area.
So, em, OK, I think, more and more people are looking for value for money. Em, and that's driven a lot of this, the, the introduction of discounters to the Irish market; it's a relatively new phenomenon for us; but we do, five years ago there were no discounters. That's interesting because the Celtic Tiger has never been as strong, we've never had so much money: how come the discounters were able to penetrate the Irish market? Because in general Irish consumers tend to be less price-sensitive – in general. However, there is an increasing kind of, I suppose, assertiveness with, with consumers about how they spend their money and they are, as I say, they are trading up to the more expensive products at the same time as they want better value.
The, most of the big multiple retailers would be, would be, eh, positioning themselves on price, eh, although, em, they sell their, their, if you like, their, their, their, their story on price but nonetheless when they, when they get you in the store they look to, kind of, get more, eh, kind of, purchasing power out of you by trading up to other areas.
There was a, a, a, price battle on in the UK last year I think for frozen food. You could buy a frozen ready-meal in Tesco I think it was for £0.99 – less than a, less than a pound – and the price of a premium dog food in the same store was £1.20! So this thing about price is largely driven by the big global, the Wal-Marts of this world. However I don't think, we haven't quite come to that stage yet in Ireland.
What we are picking up as well is people, consumers are much more aware, they're much better educated, and we, we're not quite turning into food snobs but we certainly are connoisseurs, at least in some sectors. Take for example again in Ireland, farmhouse cheese. We now have a kind of a 50 or 60 portfolio of local farmhouse cheeses, from raw milk, to goat's cheese, to sheep's cheese. This would have all been, happened in the last 10 years. So more and more people are becoming interested in the food that they eat and how they buy it, the shopping experience, you know. Generally, multiple retailers and shopping around is not a, is kind of a boring task that we have to go through. So, but more and more people are looking to, to enjoy the experience of shopping – hence the growth of farmers markets and alternative methods of buying food.
Eh, and the rituals then about consumption: you know, trying to sit down at, family meals are declining around the world so there, really, we're noticing now there is a growth in what they call in the food service sector, "eating in is eating out", you know. It's a treat night to eat in, so eating in has become the new eating out.
Em, local produce: again this is happening throughout the world. In Ireland in the last five or six years we've seen an explosion in the growth in the number of farmers markets. I saw some figure in Dorothy's [i.e. Deborah's] film about, I've forgotten, the US market. It's, well it's similar here in Ireland. We've over 100 farmers markets now operating throughout the country. And it's growing.
And there is more and more of an interest in, em, where the produce comes from, em, who produces it, how is it produced, and what protocol are they using. And we're, the Irish consumer is very aware of these, em, trends – as are other, other countries around Europe. But this is, I suppose, transparency is what they're looking for.
Ah, mentioned there I think, Glenisk [3], one of the organic companies that is using this kind of, if you like, the organic company, very successful company. Now they're, they're supplying local producers but they are also supplying multiple retailers, and doing extremely well in the UK market, a bit market for... The problem with Ireland is it's a relatively small market; 4 million people. If you want to get scale, and be successful in the food business you have to be able to export. So companies like GleniskÖ There's another company here in Kilkenny, Milleven Foods, a very good company, they have a range of confectionary products and do extremely well, positioned wholly naturally and produced locally, whatever. That's another product, a sheep's cheese product from Co. Cavan.
But I'd say, the whole, eh, eh, consumers are looking for this, going back to Mother Nature as the, the kind of touchstone for, for reference.
So OK: what does Bord Bía do? How do we use that in terms of, if you like, reassuring consumers? Now they want reassurance on traceability, and they want, eh, you know, who produced it, and they want to be able to identify with those people. We have a, a scheme, it's mainly for meat, eggs, and, and some dairy products, the Quality Assured scheme [4], which goes on all the packs, to assure them that this product is, is been quality assured from the farm right through to the retailer. But most other countries, em, you'll find for the principal commodity areas, will have a similar scheme, quality assured scheme.
Em, the other big trend – I suppose it's not different in Ireland – would be the role of the, the celebrity chef, if that's the right word, if they can call them celebrity chefs. In Ireland we have Nevin McGuire [5] up in Blacklion, who's, em, and then there's the next generation of Allens [6], there's Rachel Allen and, em, whatever. These people would have a huge influence on food and fashion, and they're introducing, if you like, a lot of the, the changes that are taking place. And the likes of Nevin would be big into using local regional produce in all of his recipes, in all of his programmes, and his restaurant, a very successful restaurant. And of course Jamie Oliver [7] who's changed the, the whole face of, of food in, in schools in the British school system. So they have a huge influence in, in the whole, kind of, em, in food, in changing food.
The other interesting thing again mentioned in Dorothy's [i.e. Deborah's] film was this using your wallets now to save the world. There is a kind of a growth in this. It's only beginning to catch on here in Ireland in terms of ethics, in terms of purchasing. And, em, we've had the fair trade kind of approach, em, I mean, there's an Irish company uses that, that fair trade that they're sourcing all their coffee and tea from proper, kind of, em, ethical sources or whatever.
And there's a company there in Athboy, in Meath, called, em, I think they call themselves South Hill Enterprises, who again, they use mentally handicapped people in all of their production that they use, and, em, they're, they're basically all of their profits go back into, into the local community. So the, we are more and more seeing this, this ethics creeping into purchasing. Now it's a small section of the market, but it is a trend nonetheless. I think consumers like to feel that they're doing something good when they're purchasing.
OK, that's a kind of a quick cycle around, not all the trends by any means, but just to give you a taste for some of them.
And then I suppose how do we, how does Bord Bía operate? Particularly in international markets. We developed what we call a tactical brand. As we are an island, we call it "Ireland – the food island". And, em, again the, it's green, obviously, the green island, and the blue raindrop, I suppose, to signify the gentle rainfall in Ireland – although we do know that it does, it does rain quite a lot. The, anecdotally, they say the birds don't sing in Ireland, they cough! But, however, that stops at the end of May. But we use this, em, again, Ireland is a small country, we don't have a huge budget in Bord Bía, we're 90 people. Eh, we have, em, I think around € 28 million in total for the entire organisation, and we don't have a big spend relative to any of the big brand companies, so we have to effectively use our funds as efficiently as we can.
So we developed this tactical brand, and we would use it in terms of positioning Ireland, em, you know, Ireland being the natural green country. Eh, the perception in Europe – it's quite low, the perception is it's, it's a green island, em, not a lot of people, em – and we kind of trade on the, on the back of that. Em, however, eh, we've done some work recently about, I think, authentic Irish ingredients. Ireland is an island of regions, it's an island of, we have a – sorry, it's a bit of an eye test, I know there's a lot up there, but if anybody would like a copy of that, I should have brought some down. Actually we have this map we've developed in conjunction with John McKenna, em, which looks at all the ingredients around. Perhaps we've forgotten about them, even within Ireland.
They are available: from wild Irish salmon in West Cork [8], eh, raw milk cheese [9], right up to boxty [10] in Cavan [11]. So every, every County in Ireland has a distinctive, eh, kind of ingredient, eh, that adds kind of value to, and contributes to the story about Ireland being a, an island of regions. So we've been doing some work on that whole area, trying to get, if you like, people, new producers to come in to the market as well.
There's about 300, about, small producers which would haveÖ When I came into this in Bord Bía – it was set up 10 years ago – there were about 60. So they, they've, exponential growth in this whole area. We have a large number of small producers who are very good, and who are great ambassadors for the food industry. So if anyone wants a copy of that, Ireland – the food island, the map [12], maybe I'll send it to you Michael and we could circulate it to anyone who attended the conference, it might be of some interest.
Em, OK. Building markets in terms of using, the positioning Ireland as the natural pure ingredients, we use that very effectively, particularly in what would you call the commodity areas of... It doesn't translate into benefits when you're talking about pizzas, green isle pizzas, whatever, prepared foods – I mean, positioning of Goodfellows is, they're Italian. So, but, however in these – the most important sectors from, from Irish, would be meat and dairy – we would use this positioning of Ireland the green island very very forcefully. We're not the only ones doing it, mind you. Every other country maintains that they are, they are pure. But we would say, "look grass-fed Irish beef is fed on grass" [13], and not many other countries can allow their cattle to graze openly. It's all usually done internally in lots or whatever [14]. Eh, and the quality of the, the eating quality arising from that is superior to other, to other, eh, countries. It's also Quality Assured, which again consumers need, and it's also competitive in price. You have to meet all of those criteria to be able to penetrate the European market, which is very competitive, you know.
Here again just looking at it there, we would be one of 200 countries all exhibiting at, say, the big trade fair, Nuga, RCA, and we have to, kind of, get some, get a, we have to get some identity: we have to shout louder and, and higher than other countries. We don't have the same budget, but this is how we use, again, the Ireland – the food island branding to get, stand out, to get some recognition in a very crowded kind of area. So we use it, again, the green, eh, positioning Ireland as kind of unique and different, as an island as well.
Em, here again is one of the, eh, a particular promotion we did in, in France on beef. And, and, eh, it's interesting that the French are very, eh, xenophobic about everything – food that's produced in France is the best! But nonetheless in more recent years we've been, been, em, making good success in penetrating the FrenchÖ again, using Ireland – the green island and that as a kind of tactical positioning.
In Italy – Italy is our biggest, curiously, our biggest market for Irish beef [15], outside of the UK. The Italians love Irish beef and they also have a great attraction for Ireland. We used, we had a big campaign around busses and trams in Milan and that's one of them. You probably can't see it out, anyway, em, it's the green pasture, eh, and the, the superior taste – unique taste was the theme that we used.
Em, something, I just, kind of, maybe to sum up if I could, I'm, em – I've been jumping around here a little bit – but just to give you a taste for what we're doing in terms of international market, we would have a very small share – outside of the UK, that is – we'd have a very small share of any of the European or international markets, so we have to fight very hard to maintain, to give our, to get outlets for our food manufacturers. And we have a number of initiatives that we do, that we, mainly focused on trade. We try and get trade buyers, and that would be retail buyers, food service buyers and distributors. We do very little, we don't have the funding, to, to convince consumers, European consumers, about Irish, so we focus on the trade. Most of our, eh, marketing initiatives are trade-focused.
And we would have things like the International Speciality Food Forum we had last month in Kilmainham; we had 150 buyers, we brought them in to Ireland to a similar location as this, a historic location. We had 85 companies, and they, we introduced the buyers to the, em, to the individual companies. And we had 800 meetings I think on the one day. It was, it gave a whole new meaning to speed dating! So, but that's the type of initiative we have to get people to come in to Ireland. Because we're an island, it's a bit of a disadvantage when you're talking about proximity to markets, so we have to work that bit harder.
Em, we also have a scheme – Féile Bía [16] – which is trying to promote and help, em, produce here in Ireland, with food service, with hotels, and restaurants, whatever, that they use what we say, Quality Approved Scheme. A lot of imports come into food service, so at the same time within Europe you're not allowed, kind of, say "Look, Irish beef is better" or, you know, you can't use comparative in marketing in Europe because... But we have this scheme, at least as long as the food comes from a Quality, a recognized Quality Assured Scheme, then you're a member of this club, Féile Bía.
Em, we participate at most of the big kind of international events. And for us, I think, this year one of our biggest sponsorship ever is the Ryder Cup. For those golfers here today, this is the biggest sporting occasion that Ireland has ever staged, or will ever stage. So, so it's a very important event for Ireland. Eh, and we're one of the sponsors along with the tourist body, eh, – Waterford, oh no, I think they dropped out – eh, AIB, the, and one of the banks. We're one of the main sponsors. And the, this image Ireland – the food island – will be beamed around the world when the Ryder Cup comes here in September. I think the audience is over 1 billion people, so we're using it, again, to project Ireland as a food island as well as a good kind of tourist destination. We're again using that to bring in, em, top buyers from all over the world, eh, to meet Irish companies, and using golf as a kind of bit of leverage. You wouldn't, wouldn't require too much leverage to come to Ireland for the Ryder Cup, I imagine. We probably get a, we have a, a very good response to that campaign.
So that kind of gives a bit of a taste for what we're doing. I, I mean, I could spend the rest of the evening here going through the detail, but I think Michael just wanted, em, a flavour for what, for how we, we use Ireland, how we promote Ireland, how we position Ireland, eh, again, with the background of food.
Thank you very much.
[Applause]
Part 2: follow-up discussion with conference participants
Michael O'Callaghan (conference chair):
Since you have to leave soon, Muiris, can you stay for another five minutes or so?
Muiris Kennedy:
Sure, yeah!
Michael O'Callaghan:
Because I'm sure there are some people who would love to just ask you a few questions.
Muiris Kennedy:
Absolutely.
Michael O'Callaghan:
Fr. Seán?
Fr. Seán McDonagh, SSC: [17]
I've worked in Asia for many many years. What about the Chinese, Japanese, South Koreans markets?
Muiris Kennedy:
Yes, I kind of skipped over it there. The, the, em, Europe, eh, the UK, Europe, one of the most important growth markets is, em, China. We, we've just, em, appointed someone who's going to be based in Shanghai, eh, as a market of long-term opportunity. It certainly is going to be the, eh, the market, eh, longer term, for Ireland – difficult market, but you're quite right, eh, em, we've identified that as well.
A forest of hands, my goodness!
Pauric Cannon (Development Coordinator, Dublin Food Coop): [18]
Muiris, there's something I'd like to ask you: what are you doing about promoting Ireland as a GM-free source of food, and also of Irish organic food?
Muiris Kennedy:
Again as I said, look, at the very outset, I mean, we're, em, the, the market promotion development agency. In terms of regulation, in terms of GM, we don't have a, kind of, a position. That's our department, our relevant department, eh, eh, of AgÖ They determine the policy for, for Ireland in terms of GM [19].
So, but we're, we are looking at a very small share of a, of a huge European market. In China they probably, they don't even know where Ireland is, eh. But what we would be positioning is, look, we've got a, a very good portfolio of about 300 companies who can supply, em, into what consumers are looking for. I'm not saying that we use it a positioning statement, we use natural, eh, and if they're organic, but we don't necessarily, if you like, use the, the thing that we're a GM-free country as a, as a kind of aÖ And we spoke, Dorothy [i.e. Deborah Koons Garcia] and I spoke about this. The awareness about GM, in Europe it's quite high [20]. And there aren't any, any retailers who will, who would even list products that are GM [21].
It's different in the US, you know [22]. But we would, we have companies, a portfolio of companies and we market those as effectively as we can. But we don't particularly go out kind of saying "this is a GM-free island" or whatever [23]. It's not one of the positioning strategies. But certainly, natural, island, eh, yes.
Michael O'Callaghan:
I think it would be fair to say that the, obviously the Department of Agriculture and the Irish Government have a very strong pro-GM policy [24]; on the other hand, eh, for example, members of Féile Bía like the Restaurants Association [25] and the leading chefs [26] are opposed to GM, so Bord Bía is kind of stuck in the middle. You don't make policy, but then it's obvious there is a growing market for GM-free food.
In connection with that, I have a question: you were talking about the Quality Assured Scheme. Is that a, are the criteria for that set, determined here in Ireland, or is it part of a kind of European-wide thing?
Muiris Kennedy:
Well they'd be all, they'd be linked into the EN45011 which is the kind of internationally recognised quality approved scheme. Em, but our one, actually, as well as, em, approving the processors, it now goes back to farm level. We we'll be doing 14,000 farm inspections this year, so, so it goes right back to theÖ
Michael O'Callaghan:
Are the criteria – the objective criteria for measuring the quality or evaluating the quality – not determined by the Irish government, or are they partially determined by it?
Muiris Kennedy:
I suppose it's determined by industry, and, em, but the retail sector as well would have an influence in that. But it's recognized internationally. I mean you have, most countries have, have their own scheme. So it would be on a par, and probably better than a lot of, I know the UK have the BRC – the British Retail Consortia, eh, our, the scheme that we run is far superior to that, because it, they only, eh, they only screen or they only assess, they only assess the processor, they don't go back to the, at farm gates, so our, our scheme is much more thorough.
Michael O'Callaghan:
Is there any, eh, I mean, can, could food consisting of, you know, that contains genetically modified ingredients be approved with this Quality Assured Scheme at the moment?
Muiris Kennedy:
Mmmh, I mean labeling is an issue [27]. And that's, I think, the legislators are, are introducing, kind of, you must label the products properly [28]. And there, Ireland I think is leading, kind of, the, the Europe in that and we're pushing very strong for proper labeling, for proper origin of the product as well. Because a lot of stuff still comes in [29].
Eh, in terms of, ah, well I know there was a recent case last week there with the Food Safety Authority who looked at a number of honey companies around Ireland and discovered that, to their horror, that three or four of them were misrepresenting the fact that it was pure Irish honey. It was, em, a mixture of, em, it came from around the world and whatever [30]. Although one of the best companies is here in Kilkenny, Mileeven, they weren't involved in that, they are very good company.
Michael O'Callaghan:
There is Canadian honey made from genetically modified oilseed rape being imported in Ireland. They filter out the pollen so that it passes the test as not GM, and they they dump a bucket of Irish honey into it with Irish pollen, and then pass it off as Irish honey. [31]
Any other questions for Bord Bía?
Mary [woman in audience]:
The live exports, animals, live animal exports: I'm particularly interested in that subject. Has your organization any interest in trying to, I mean if you kill an animal before you export it, the value added is considerable. Why do we keep exporting these animals, and they have more dreadful journey to get there, and then when they do get there they have a most dreadful death?
Muiris Kennedy:
Well I'm not saying again, it's a policy decision in terms of allowing, eh, eh, exports, mmh, live exports, that's a, eh, however I would say that in principle, Mary, the, we would much prefer to see the added value happening here in Ireland because jobs and job creation. However the farming community, on the other hand, maintain that if they don't have an outlet – another outlet other than going to the processor – that they're being, they're being squeezed on price, and therefore they have to, eh, they have to have an additional outlet. So there's two sides. But in principle, if we can add the value here, eh, it's, eh, it's better, yeah, absolutely.
Frank Corcoran (Vice President, European Environment Bureau [32], and Chair, An Taisce [33]):
The five thousand members of An Taisce voluntarily monitor the quality of rivers, lakes, air, soil, even dioxins that might land in plants, and are very vigilant on not allowing incinerators from which dioxins land in food etc, which would make an impact.
What would be the impact for Bord Bía if Ireland lost this image that it is a green clean island, what effect would it have on Bord Bía?
Muiris Kennedy:
Obviously, it, it, not only with food but with tourism as well, it would have a, would have a significant effect, eh, obviously.
Em, now I think we still have a good reputation out there [34]. We're still relatively small, I mean four million people, and very big landmass, and I know that you're very active in another organization there as well, insuring we don't get a bad reputation and whatever. But it would be, it would certainly not help the international image of, mind you, eh, I have to say as well – and I've lived and worked overseas – that the image of Ireland, curiously, even beyond Britain, even in some areas, is very very low, it's very hazy, exactly what Ireland is and where it is, and so, I know we're very close to it emotionally ourselves but really, eh, we have a tough job. We spend most of our time telling buyers about where Ireland is, and what's our capability. And once you've got over that, eh, eh, but no, your point is, is obviously valid. I mean we do, and we bring in a lot of people to show them, you know, how good we are at producing food and what a great kind of country it is and how natural it is and whatever. But it's a point that, em, it's a point that, a valid point. We wouldn't like to lose that, certainly not [35].
Woman in audience:
The food pyramid [36] has had a tremendous influence on Irish health and life. Em, I think the general populace is much more aware of healthy food than it is given credit for. The Irish breakfasts now are more cereal-based than, than meat-based, em, sausages etc, except people on holiday. And, em, just your point about supermarkets. Em, men love supermarkets. If you got to a supermarket now you find men wandering around doing their shopping. And another point about hotels: when you go abroad, any of the hotels abroad you will have the traditional bacon and sausage etc., it doesn't matter where you are, Madrid of wherever, you will have what they call an Irish breakfast. On the side they have a continental-type breakfast with the cheese and the meats and all the rest of it. So there's a tremendous market for that, and you knowÖ
Muiris Kennedy:
Yep. Just on your point about shopping. I mean the – again we could be here all night with – but one of the areas we would look at each year is the attitudes to cooking and the attitudes to shopping. But our, our kind of research would suggest that, em, you don't, we don't have any serial men shoppers knocking around. Still, in general it's still the response of the, of females, even despite the fact that there's more women working in the workforce, it's still largely, now largely, the responsibility of, of females in terms of that decision-making. Now you will see more men wandering – wandering around is the right word, probably, you know – but eh, eh, this whole kind of changing demographics is having an impact on the food industry. We have a new, you know, we categorise the consumers into A B, the high rollers, but there's a new category now, I think in England and Ireland, called the Slops. Have any of you heard of the Slops? That's the Singles Living Off the Parents, you know. More and more people staying at home for longer time, and these are kind of, you know, convenience junkies, you know; they have no interest in food, eh, and they're – that's partially in Ireland because of the cost of housing – it's difficult to set up on your own or whatever, but anyway you can't get them off the payroll, they're home now till they're thirty five, you know, ha ha ha, anyway.
Michael O'Callaghan:
Just a couple of more questions.
Old farmer in audience:
In the case of horticultural productionÖ with the widespread use of pesticides [37], and in some cases of artificial fertilizers [38], do you think there is damage done as far as health is concerned to the product that's produced? And if you do think that there is damage done, could it be publicized in such a way, for two reasons. One, to prevent the people from buying the adulterated product, and encourage organic production? I think there should be some sort of a proof, an assurance scheme about organic production. Is green good? Could you answer that?
Muiris Kennedy:
Just on the issue of horticulture, yes there is a Quality Assured scheme for horticultural produce in Ireland, and a lot of the growers are members of that particular association, which will give, which validates the production protocols or whatever [39]. Now it doesn't cover all sectors. On the organic front, certainly, I mean, there is a huge, if you like, development and interest amongst consumers about organic produce or whatever. Now I have to say as well, another, some other research we did is that there are confused, consumers in general are a bit confused about organics. What exactly is organics? What is natural? What is local? There's a kind of a, a little little bit of misunderstanding out there. Now, the, and, I'm not saying that this a conscious thing of the organisations involved, but there's a number of organisations, different organisations involved in, in kind of organics [40], and I think consumers are a little bit confused as to what is, eh, a pure organic product, when isn't it organic, when is it, is it natural organic? But nonetheless, all of this, these categories are benefiting from, consumers do want to, to source these type of products. And I know there's a national organics, we've a Council, and I think ehÖ
Old farmer in audience:
Many years ago I was convinced myself that the widespread use of many of these pesticides in vegetable production – like in onion production, and in potatoes – that it was goingÖ
Muiris Kennedy:
I'm just not competent to answer that, maybe you should ask some of the doctors about that.
Michael O'Callaghan:
We can talk about that with the rest of the panel in a few moments. There's another question over here.
John Brennan (Chair, Western Organic Network [41] and Manager of the Leitrim Organic Farmers Coop [42]):
Muiris, you know who I am. We've sent Irish beef, organic beef [43] through Slaney Foods [44] to Tesco [45] in the UK. It's Quality Assured through Bord Bía's Quality Assured scheme. We feel it's very high quality, the ultimate, the highest quality product coming off the island. Also yesterday, we invited Rory Fanning from Slaney Foods here. And he came along, as he said, to get more information on the issues surrounding GM and the implications it has, or could have potentially, for our exports.
And could I put it, to maybe Bord Bía, that maybe as part of looking to the future, em, of food coming of this island, that we get the key people from the food industry – I'm talking about people from the likes of Slaney, ICM, Glanbia, and so on – to sit down with Bord Bía and other interested parties, and look at what the implications would be for the markets, and for the use of GM feed [46] in livestock production systems generally, to try and get some, at least, discussion going?
Because without getting a discussion going, we'll be here in another three or five year's time still uninformed. And I think what's really concerning me, is that the people who are making up the volume of adding to our gross national product, our domestic product there in terms of exports, know very little about what the implications of the use of genetically modified organisms are in agriculture today. So could I just put it to you that there needs to be some forum where the industry can get together and sit down and discuss these issues in a rational way, and try and come up with a coherent policy to deal with them in the future?
Muiris Kennedy:
Yes, that's a good point John. There is an organic market development group [47], eh, established. I don't know if you're probably a member of that, John, you are, yes? And that is a, if you like, there's a structure there, and I certainly, when I go backÖ
Michael O'Callaghan:
It goes way beyond organic! [48] We're talking about mainstream conventional farmingÖ
Muiris Kennedy:
Yes, but maybe there's an established group which consists of growers, the, the, Bord Bía, the Department or whatever, at least there's a, there's a formal structure there, and we're members of that and certainly I would start there, John, and, and I can follow up with you afterwards about that particular initiative, yeah. Now, eh, it's a good idea.
John Brennan:
Yes, I think so. But we need to get to a stage where we get that particular issue onto the agenda of that group. And to date we're finding it difficult to engage with the people from the various Government Departments and that, on the particular GM issue, so I think, that was what I was saying: we need to have an industry discussion with the representatives that are making the vast majority of agricultural decisions on this.
Muiris Kennedy:
Anything I can do, I'll follow up with you on that directly [49]. There is a thing just generally about the organic – and John would know better than most – but the terms of pricing differentials, they are diminishing, em, as organics become more into the, part of the mainstream categories. Eh, I mean they started out, you know, on their own in kind of separate areas, but more and more now you're seeing, emÖ There was a big debate on whether organic should have its own category. Eh, and what's happening now, seems to happen now, is that they're just becoming more and more into the mainstream and therefore that's putting, kind of, pressure on the price differential to come down towards the more, the mainstream products. It's just like a new formula, a new variety. So that's, that's a big issue, and I know, John, you're conscious of that, as we all are. So it's more expensive to produce organic produce, yet it's been pitched, you know, into the same category with three or four other products being compared on price, whatever, so, so that's a, there's a bigger issue in there that we all have to tackle. And we, unfortunately I don't know what the answer to that one is, but anyway, sorryÖ
Michael O'Callaghan:
I just have a comment: it's very important for conventional farmers and food producers to understand that GM is an issue that is already having a price differential in their sectors [50]. It's not just an organic issue! And the biotech industry [51], and the biotech industry spin-doctors [52], and – I must say, members of the Irish Government who are involved in policy-making [53] – have, in my view done a great disservice to the conventional farming and food producing sector by mis-representing the GM issue as something which is only of concern to organic producers. You lose your certification, but it's only them. For example, we were at a, there was a discussion on the ethics of food, or bioethics, run by the Royal Irish Academy [54] in Dawson Street a couple of years ago, and the head of Monsanto Ireland [55] was asked "Do you not admit that if GM crops come in, contamination will happen, and that organic farmers would sooner or later – probably quite soon – go out of business because they will lose their certification?" And he gave this extraordinary response, publicly, in front of the whole room. He said "Yes, if GM comes in, when it comes in, organic farmers will be contaminated and they will go out of business, but it doesn't matter, because organic farmers are such a small sector of the economy!"
Muiris Kennedy:
Yes, I hear that.
Michael O'Callaghan:
You know so it'sÖ I mean, I'm really glad that you came because we've been trying to engage a discussion on this issue with the Department [of Agriculture and Food] [56]. I'd like to express to you my personal view, that represents the view of most of the, all of the 110 organisations and their 32,000 members that are in the GM-free Ireland Network [57].
We are absolutely outraged at the Irish government for its position [58]. No offence to you, but I meanÖ
Muiris Kennedy:
I mean, I'm, I'm kind of the monkey, it's the organ-grinder you want to get at, sorry [laughter]!
Michael O'Callaghan:
Ö Fianna Fáil promised they would never allow GM in, at allÖ [59]
Muiris Kennedy:
Yes.
Michael O'Callaghan:
Ö and then they started voting for it completely. So they lied! [60]
Muiris Kennedy:
Yeah.
Michael O'Callaghan:
The Minister for Agriculture went through the motions of a public consultation process [61] that we regard as totally undemocratic, and completely failing to abide by the ideas of the Aarhus Convention [62] for engaging the citizens in a proper consultation process. And also the track-record of the governmentÖ [63] And then the complete denial that there is any scientific evidence of health risks and so on [64]. So we're hoping that there may be a way to overcome this dysfunction in our social system, in our citizens and our governance, by engaging the food producers, the farmers, and the restaurants, and the people who really believe and have a vested economic interest in working with what you're doing – the Food Island – and make the policy makers and the other parts of the Irish government understand that in economic terms alone – even if you don't look at the environment and health risks – it makes complete sense for us to keep what we have, which is a green image, the lowest contamination of dioxins in the topsoil, and a GM-free, nuclear-free and incinerator-free country. We think that would be of huge economic value for the future of Irish food exports.
Muiris Kennedy:
Yeah, I think what you're saying is obviously a valid point.
But again, at the outset, I said we're, we're the market and promotion development, we're not in the regulatory régime. I do know that it's our relevant department, and they are, in turn, also, eh, I suppose restricted or they have to, to abide by the European legislation [65].
And they're, in terms of, obviously, signed up to the, we're all, in Europe, twenty-five countries now, and we're, and, eh, we're, we're there since 1973. But just one point, Michael, is I think Irish farmers and food producers are very clever and sharp, and we spend a lot of time trying to pick up what consumers are looking for, what's driving consumers.
And at the moment there is no appetite, certainly, for any GMO-type products in the European market. [66]
And that's 90% of where we're... Now we're just tracking what the consumers are looking for: they want convenience, they want more knowledge, more awareness about local produce, regional foods or whatever. So I mean I don't see a kind of a rush into, into farmers moving out of what they're doing, into what is going to be a very very difficult market for any producer to get into, particularly in Europe, whatever.[67]
It's somewhat different in the US, and that's to do with awareness or whatever [68], but, eh, so I think from a positive point of view, in terms of looking at what consumers want, and that's really what we're trying to tell, eh, producers, "This is what consumers are looking for, and this is how consumers are reacting and behaving in the market today." So I don't know if IÖ
Michael O'Callaghan:
Consumers obviously don't want GM food, and the thirty largest food brands and the thirty largest food retailers [in the EU] don't want it! [69]
The problem as we see it is the Irish government's collusion with the World Trade Organisation [70] and the European Commission and the biotech industry to gloss over, mis-represent, misinform, and cover-up the health risks [71], and to promote this myth that GM crops can "co-exist" [72] with conventional and organic farming – even though there's no market for GM food. If the government succeeds, they are going to open the door for GM seeds [73] to be introduced, and GM crops [74]. And all it takes is one farmer to come in with GM rapeseed and five years later you won't be able to have non-GM broccoli, cauliflower, turnips, brussel sprouts, and all that stuff [75], so I'm just asking youÖ
Muiris Kennedy:
Ö making your point.
Michael O'Callaghan:
Ö to relay our concerns to your colleagues. That would be very good.
I know you have to leave in a hurry butÖ
Muiris Kennedy:
To apologise, yeah, 'cause when I was talking to Michael I, we, half [past] two was in kind of my mind or whatever, but it's now half six. I got it wrong, though, I was wrong, I got the timing wrong, so. I had intended originally to stay over for the night but we had people coming in to visit us from abroad and it just didn't work out so I have to head back now, back to Dublin, so anyway I could take one last question, is that, eh,
Woman in audience:
I was just going to say two things. First of all, to say thank you, Michael, for representing the concerns of many of our Irish citizens.
And number two, while you [i.e. Muiris] say it's in other arenas in relation to policy-making, you have your voice – Bord Bía has its voice. I would humbly ask you to inform yourself in relation to all of the points that Michael has made, and simply be proactive about it, with whoever our policy makers are.
Muiris Kennedy:
Yeah. That's a good point. Thank you.
[Applause]
Muiris Kennedy:
On that positive note, can I take my leave? Thank you, thank you very much.
ENDNOTES:
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